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A place for your current or past S12 projects, detail your build & modifications, and share them with the community.
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drummingpariah
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:37 pm
Location: Manchester, NH (USA)
Name: Jesse
Car: 86 200sx turbo

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Post by drummingpariah »

I didn't know what I was getting myself into when I picked this s12 up. I saw it on Craigslist for $1200 with a few major issues, and called to ask about it, and got the usual flaky response: "Someone's coming to look at it today, but call me back if you're still interested later on." It's a pretty lazy way to sell a car, if you ask me.


I didn't need a new vehicle, but I had decided that it was time to replace my BMW e36, which I absolutely hated every second of owning. German cars are nightmares to own. Anyway, I'm a fan of Nissan's engineering choices overall, and this is from what I consider to be the 'golden age' after car electronics started to make sense (with relays and blade-style fuses) but before they stopped making sense again (with multiple o2 sensors and 30 bajillion ways to set the ECU into limp home mode). This was the only car on Craigslist within a reasonable budget that fit the bill.

... back to my tale. Fortunately, even though the seller was a lazy man indeed, I'm a diligent buyer. Once I find what I want, I'm pretty persistent. I decided that $1200 was altogether too much for an old car with a craptastical engine and no starter motor attached, and called back later that night. I was disappointed to find that he had traded it for a turbo Integra, and asked if the person who ended up with it would be interested in selling it (remember how I said I'm persistent?). As it turned out, he was, so we scheduled a meetup for the next weekend.

I drove my horrid German pile of BMW across the NH border to check it out, and had to try to contain my excitement upon seeing it sitting in the little tent it called home.
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The poor car was decidedly jdm-rice'd and had lost a rear quarter window in its adventures, but I was still willing to play ball. I tested all the electrical systems I could, checked the differential, felt my way through the gears, and pushed it around a little to make sure it wasn't seized, and put down a deposit. The following weekend, it came home with me on a flatbed for $900.

There were issues, and I was still looking for a garage space, but I wasn't going to let that stop me. The rear quarter window needed replacing, the wheels that came with it needed to be shot, the headlights had been hacked into the silly sleepy-eye position (sure, it looks kind of neat, but I want to DRIVE this car... even at night!), one of the tires wouldn't hold air, and there was no starter motor. Sitting in that driveway it got some attention that fall, but not having a garage (or even a flat driveway) really killed my motivation and I let it sit while I hunted for a new place to live with a garage.
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In the meantime, I decided that the ca20e isn't worth calling a powerplant, kind of like how a bag of peanuts isn't worth calling a meal. I picked up a ka24de locally, and started pulling it apart. I compression tested it (182/181/182/182) and measured the lash on the cams (nearly perfect) so I decided not to pull the head off, but I definitely wanted to be able to get a reasonable base tune on it.

While we're talking about tuning, join me on a tangent for a moment. I'm a big fan of simplicity in cars, and the EFI system on the ka24de requires a LOT of work to become something I'd consider acceptable. The shoddy side-feed injectors, inefficient fuel rail, ineffective air sensor, and terrible base tune on the ECU all knock it down to one of the worst engine management systems I can imagine. Setting all that up adds a lot of time and development to the project, and really doesn't improve it... it just makes it less broken.

... back on topic, I wanted a base tune while keeping this simple and straightforward. I priced out a proper EFI setup and it came to just under $550 at the least, with second-hand parts. It'd take roughly a month to get it running correctly, and I just don't have that much time to spend on this just to get it to move on its own power. So that went out the window, and I ordered a fuel management system that I know inside and out:
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These are really straightforward Mikuni BST38 carburettors. These particular carbs came off a Suzuki GSXR-750 (one of my favorite vehicles I've ever owned) for $70 after shipping. I ordered new main jets for $7 and rebuilt/cleaned them. The main jets wouldn't offer the effective tuning I wanted, but they were in the right ballpark to get the 2.4liter engine running @ 5,000rpm instead of a 0.75liter engine @ 12,000rpm. Remember, the point here is to get a very coarse tune and have the engine running and ready to be improved immediately. The stock EFI system wouldn't cut it, aftermarket EFI was too time-intensive, and these carbs will work as long as you give them vacuum and fuel. They mate to the stock GSXR intake with rubber boots, and the intake spacing for the ka24de was nearly perfect... they should line up pretty nicely.

With the fuel issue solved, I moved on to the other part of engine management that the stock ECU screws up pretty badly: ignition timing. Unfortunately, the ka24de doesn't have a vacuum distributor (if anyone knows if I can use the old l20 guts or something, let me know!) so the ECU needs to be involved. The best option I could come up with is a standalone spark management system called MegaSpark Lite Jr. It's straightforward, open-source, and relatively inexpensive (under $200). I could run that with an EDIS system to get extremely strong and accurate spark. If possible, I'd rather not spend the development time, and just use a vacuum-advance distributor or guts. It's a decision I still haven't made as of this writing.

To clear my head, I continued cleaning the engine and transmission. I like the way this picture came out, and everybody loves pictures in build threads, so I'm including it even though it isn't really relevant.
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Then, FINALLY, I had to get ready to move. I went out to clean up the s12 for moving, and got a little carried away. Stuff came out.
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So, here it sits in my new garage (finally), but it's been pretty frigid here for the past few weeks. I just picked up a kerosene heater for the garage after going to the gym tonight, and am wicked excited to get back into this thing. I have a lot to do this week.

Troubleshoot the ignition circuit wiring issue. I have a strong feeling that it has something to do with a previous owner's handiwork (there's no + signal going to the ignition tumbler):
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My solution is elegant and simple (what I strive for). Forget about the key entirely, they really don't prevent car theft anyway. Instead, I like switch panels, and these boat panels are pretty cheap and include circuit breakers instead of fuses (MAJOR bonus). I'd just have to wire up my circuits individually (fuel pump, ecu, ignition, etc).
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Get the ca20e running (the starter is in and wired up now) so it can push itself around.

I also need to ship my old wheels from one of my 240z's here from California, where I had to leave the cars. Honestly, I think they'll look pretty sweet on the s12:
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Identify the differential. I BELIEVE the mk1.5 (it's an 86) had u-joint axles, not CV axles. I'm also fairly sure this particular car didn't come with an LSD from the factory, but the lift-and-spin test proved that this is a limited slip, so I'm trying to identify which r200 it is. If anyone else can tell just by looking at the rear cover, I'm all ears. Right now I'm GUESSING z32 shortnose r200.
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Tonight, it sits happily in the garage, waiting for me to give it some attention.
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If anyone's interested, I can fill in some of the blanks on my car history. I'm not gonna go more nuts with the pictures than I have already unless someone asks, though. This post already turned into a book.
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CitizenErased
Posts: 125
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:13 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

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Post by CitizenErased »

Looking great so far. Seems like you've got a good idea of what you're doing. What are your long-term plans for the car?
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Draconis
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Name: Colin

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Post by Draconis »

Not all that bad from what you've done so far. You are definitely knowledgeable with a keen sense of your goals and preferences. I dig the switch board. It is quite simple and knowing what little I do about wiring, simplifies things I'm sure.

By the way, you scored better than me. My S12 had issues but I ended up buying it for either $1200 or $1300. I forgot which to be honest. I got screwed but it was the first car I purchased and such. Had no clue what I was doing and wish I could go back and change a couple points of the negotiations.

The rims from the S30 would look sick on an S12 and the offset looks ideal from what I can tell in the picture. I know plenty of guys on here who would have a better idea of what diff. you have, Dean/Umai for one. Guess just gotta wait until they see the thread. Sorry I couldnt help. I dont know them well enough to figure out by sight.

As for more pics and information, do it when you get a chance. It flushes out what your story and it's the stories that we can all relate to and brings more character to both the car and your journey. At least for me, I'm a fan of hearing about others who have a passion for their car. In some ways, it reminds me of when I was so focused on my S12 and how I went about resurrecting her to a decent chassis despite so many people saying that I should sell her.
james
Posts: 2823
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Location: Lyndoch 5351, SA
Name: James
Car: Nissan Gazelle RS-X

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Post by james »

that diff looks like a standard r180... easiest way to tell is to check the stamps on it.. or check the bracket that support it. if it's a home-made / aftermarket bracket then it will probably be a r200

lsd.. perhaps. although given its history i wouldn't be at all surprised if it's welded.

anyway, i love where you're going with the power plant! very cool!
swampdonkyy
Posts: 1267
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:46 pm
Location: Morphett Vale, Adelaide
Name: Brad
Car: S12 SILVIA FISCO

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Post by swampdonkyy »

Diff looks like a longnose r180, looks to small to be an r200, sell it to the dato 1600 boys & buy your self an 4:11 longnose r200
drummingpariah
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:37 pm
Location: Manchester, NH (USA)
Name: Jesse
Car: 86 200sx turbo

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Post by drummingpariah »

james wrote: that diff looks like a standard r180... easiest way to tell is to check the stamps on it.. or check the bracket that support it. if it's a home-made / aftermarket bracket then it will probably be a r200

lsd.. perhaps. although given its history i wouldn't be at all surprised if it's welded.

anyway, i love where you're going with the power plant! very cool!
If it's a Nissan r180, it's VERY unlikely that it's an LSD (I think only the Nismo racing diffs were limited slip). If it is just a welded r180, I think I'll swap it out for a Subaru LSD r160 or 180 rear diff. They make a lot more sense, and are close enough to bolt-in on these.

I'm definitely a fan of doing things a little different under the hood, but this ignition thing is really a downer. I just want a vac-advance dizzy!
swampdonkyy wrote: Diff looks like a longnose r180, looks to small to be an r200, sell it to the dato 1600 boys & buy your self an 4:11 longnose r200

Weren't the s12's shortnose? If they're longnose, the Subaru's will pretty much plop right in. If they're shortnose, the Z32 should plop right in. Either way, I'm a happy camper.

CitizenErased wrote: Looking great so far. Seems like you've got a good idea of what you're doing. What are your long-term plans for the car?


Long-term? Get it running. Drive. Replace tires. Drive more.

Seriously though, I want to drop as much weight off this as possible and call it my daily driver. A lot of people tend to disagree with me on what constitutes a daily driver, but my goals are fairly simple: Efficient, easy to maintain, and fun to drive.

So the interior is gone, rear seats are gone, dashboard is gone, spare tire is gone, etc. Anything I don't need to drive gets removed. I'll get around to making some fiberglass body panels for it at some point to drop more weight off the front, and move the battery into the back. I'm not in love with the ka24de, because of the half-counterweighted crank and heavy iron block. My power goals aren't very aggressive, I think a car this small and in the weight class I'm shooting for (under 2,000lbs wet) I think 150whp will be a perfectly happy place to be. Right now, I have my scope set on the n/a sr20de (the turbo/intercooler weighs more, and both make 150whp just fine, so I'll take the lighter one). I haven't decided if I'm going to finish the ka24de carb plan and make it a stepping stone to the sr20de, or if i'll just skip the ka24de altogether and sell it off. I'm trying not to get carried away with plans for the moment, I just need to get it on the road so I can sort the suspension and whatever other issues I know it'll have.

Oh, along with the 150whp goal, I expect >40mpg if I drive like a sane person. So the goal is:
  • 25/25/25/25 weight balance (or as close as possible)
  • under 1 ton total weight
  • 150whp or more
  • 40mpg
  • a passenger seat (with a barf bag or pee cover?)
Draconis wrote: Not all that bad from what you've done so far. You are definitely knowledgeable with a keen sense of your goals and preferences. I dig the switch board. It is quite simple and knowing what little I do about wiring, simplifies things I'm sure.

By the way, you scored better than me. My S12 had issues but I ended up buying it for either $1200 or $1300. I forgot which to be honest. I got screwed but it was the first car I purchased and such. Had no clue what I was doing and wish I could go back and change a couple points of the negotiations.

The rims from the S30 would look sick on an S12 and the offset looks ideal from what I can tell in the picture. I know plenty of guys on here who would have a better idea of what diff. you have, Dean/Umai for one. Guess just gotta wait until they see the thread. Sorry I couldnt help. I dont know them well enough to figure out by sight.

As for more pics and information, do it when you get a chance. It flushes out what your story and it's the stories that we can all relate to and brings more character to both the car and your journey. At least for me, I'm a fan of hearing about others who have a passion for their car. In some ways, it reminds me of when I was so focused on my S12 and how I went about resurrecting her to a decent chassis despite so many people saying that I should sell her.


I haven't really accomplished anything yet, so I'm not about to pat myself on the back, but thanks for the encouragement.

Well, I've put some money into it as well, and still haven't gotten to drive it around. The starter was $80, tires will be $200, shipping for the wheels will be $125, a replacement fender will be around $75, and the rear quarter window is another $100 (including the little lever thingy). I wouldn't say I made out like a bandit, but on the engine I totally lucked out. $250 (plus gas) for a high-compression motor with 5spd transmission is really hard to complain about. I'd say you did well for this being your first car purchase.

I thought I knew Nissan diffs pretty well myself, but that rear cover is giving me nothing to work on. The non-finned r200's could be anything, and it's completely missing the identification tag. So even though it really doesn't change anything (I'm happy to have an LSD in the back of this thing) I'm scratching my head as to what this is.

So, my automotive history.
Humble Beginnings
It all begins about ... hmmm, 8 years ago or so, when I finally purchased my 'dream car': a 1991 Honda CRX Si for $1250. It came with a turbo that I immediately sold, and that covered half the price of the car. I had a lot of adventures in that car, and was excited with every little change I made. There are reasons why everyone who's ever owned a CRX says they miss it. They're a ton of fun to drive. The engine was tired and smoky when I purchased it, and I limped it along for another 80k miles before it tossed a rod out the front and through the radiator, so I replaced it with an engine from an Integra. The swap was pretty badly documented, with piecemeal advice/tips/tricks on various forums, and I pulled it all into one central documentation source.
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Aside from a couple minor complaints about the car, I absolutely loved it and would recommend a CRX to anyone.
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At the same time, I had my GSXR600w:
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Real Cars
After that, I realized what real performance was and my plans changed a little. I ended up moving to California, and picked up a Datsun 240z.
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It ended up with a 5.4liter Chevy v8 in it (just a standard 350ci) and dual side-dump jpipes. This this was such a beast, but had major issues that I never fixed. The rear suspension was basically just steel blocks and the front end floated when you got on the highway (these Datsuns weren't known for being aerodynamically effective). It was the first automatic I ever enjoyed driving, with a big scary slap-shifter that would break traction any time you upshifted. Twice while I was getting on the highway it pulled up into a wheelie, and I decided that suspension setup was more important that power output at that point. I sold that off to a buddy, and you can see/hear it running on my site. That thing was such a beast, it's obscene.

Between my housemate and I, we regularly had 3 or 4 240z's in our driveway at any given time.

I also picked up a motorcycle that turned out to be a complete dud. The previous owner had lost the title, and neglected to tell me that when I picked it up. Having just moved to California from New Hampshire (where titles aren't required at all), I went through with the deal anyway. It was a bad idea.
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I couldn't help myself, and picked up another CRX, this time an 89 CRX DX, for $350. The CRX DX was a massive pain because it only had two injectors, and converting it to run on 4 is a huge pain (wiring is WAY worse when you're colorblind, by the way). That got a new engine, suspension, and a gutted interior before I sold it off.
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I picked up a 76 Celica to replace that for $400. It was pathetically slow, with a complicated carburettor and a terrible automatic transmission. Still, I had some great times tearing around a few of the mountain roads in Berkeley, CA. I think I sold it for $1500 or so.
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I then picked up another Datsun 240z for $600, not really knowing what I was getting into this time. I never did get to drive that one, and left it in California to be crushed when I moved back to Massachusetts. When I finally left it, I had installed an l28et 2.8liter turbocharged inline 6 engine, a 5speed manual (there were only 4speeds available from the factory), new body panels, all new electrical work, an electronic fuel injection configuration, proper aerodynamics, some carbon fiber panels I had fabricated, all new polyurethane bushings, and a bigger, beefier differential. I really wish I had kept that car.

Here's a comparison of when I picked it up to when it got scrapped.
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You can see the 302-powered Falcon I was working on with a friend in this picture as well.

That catches us up to my move back to Mass, where I found a BMW e36 coupe for $2100, but talked him down to $1400. Buying a German car is the single worst thing I've ever done in my automotive ownership history. They're extremely complicated, very finicky, hard to find quality parts at reasonable prices (polyurethane bushings for the ENTIRE 240z were $120, polyurethane bushings for the e36 came to $1150), and they're fat. They're absolutely obese cars, and there's very little that can be done about it. There were no manual windows available for the e36, nor was there manual steering.
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I did everything I could to get it to handle nicely, and was marginally successful. With fresh bushings and well-tuned Bilstein shocks, I achieved extremely predictable handling characteristics. The inline 6 engine produces really predictable power as well, which led me to drive the living snot out of the poor car. I only owned it for 6 months or so, but went through altogether too many tires in it.
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... even after upgrading to 17x8.5 Z3 wheels.
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Essentially, I was always driving the e36 at the ragged edge of its performance limits. The only real solution is to drop weight from the car. Otherwise, I'd have to stop enjoying driving (Vermont has some beautiful curvy roads with speed limits that qualify as 'fun'). I got tired of spreading my tires over my rear bumper any time I came to a fun road, and really couldn't drop more weight from the e36 without turning it into a dedicated track car, so I decided it was time for a lighter car that would be easier on the tires (s12).
Last edited by drummingpariah on Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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swampdonkyy
Posts: 1267
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:46 pm
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Name: Brad
Car: S12 SILVIA FISCO

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Post by swampdonkyy »

1 of these diffs looks like your... 2 dont ;)

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R160------------R180------------R200

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Last edited by swampdonkyy on Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
drummingpariah
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:37 pm
Location: Manchester, NH (USA)
Name: Jesse
Car: 86 200sx turbo

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Post by drummingpariah »

Well that solves it. I may still have my old vsld r200 from my 240z... but now I need to figure out whether it's long-nose or short-nose. I still don't have my jack in my garage, so I haven't been able to get up under there to get a good look yet.
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swampdonkyy
Posts: 1267
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 2:46 pm
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Name: Brad
Car: S12 SILVIA FISCO

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Post by swampdonkyy »

All z's, irs s12's, datsun 1600's & dr30's run longnose

s13/r32 onward ran shortnose

So your diff is a longnose R180 :yes:

Your Z diff will half bolt up, you will need to find a R200 rear mount or mod the R180 one, the drive shaft may need modding to (larger uni than r180), the cv drive shafts may fit depending on the yr of your Z
Last edited by swampdonkyy on Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
drummingpariah
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:37 pm
Location: Manchester, NH (USA)
Name: Jesse
Car: 86 200sx turbo

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Post by drummingpariah »

You just explained all my questions about short/long-nose Nissan diffs in one sentence. So, crappy longnose r180 has to go.

I have the moustache bar from the s30, and it looks to be the same basic layout to mount it to the frame. Making a new rear mount won't be a big deal anyway.

I know the driveshaft for the s30 bolted right up without any modifications, and I had to use the r200 axles (since my s30 had ujoint axles from the factory). I'm just not sure what changed when they went to the s-chassis.

For now though, the plan remains the same. Get it running, get tires on it, identify and address major issues.

Thanks for all the help and encouragement, guys. I love getting such a warm welcome at a new forum.
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