S12 Track Car Bendigo

shamus11 · Post by **shamus11** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:38 pm

Got the crossmember properly fitted and bolted in today, wasted a lot of time today looking for parts and scrounging bolts off parts cars & trying different engine mounts so the engine mounts didn't get done.

I bolted a pair of struts (without springs) in and LCAs knuckles and R31 caster bars (which fitted nicely) and the car with wheels back on the ground Now I'm up to checking camber etc at the planned ride height. Initially this will be with the LCA's in a horizontal position. If funds permit down the track I would like to get some knuckles with roll center adjustment in them (higher spindles).

Wheel wise on the front I'm going to be looking for something around 9" et10 to et15 or 8.5" et4 to et10. That's running very close to the lips and I even may need an extra 5mm positive offset. If I could run a et0 I'd have so many options.

I still have a slight camber difference from side to side to sort out tomorrow. I think it is slop in the knuckle/strut holes and I accidentally put 2 left struts in so I need to swap one for a right one. I don't think that would be affecting the camber though.

Will do another photo dump when the engine mounts are finished. Going to the footy this weekends so may not get as much done as I would like. Go Cats!

van_denton · Post by **van_denton** » Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:08 am

This is wicked, I was thinking of doing a similar thing with using a front bumper off another car as here in the UK its difficult to find parts, old integras are probably rarer still though! Great work.

shamus11 · Post by **shamus11** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:28 pm

van_denton wrote:
This is wicked, I was thinking of doing a similar thing with using a front bumper off another car as here in the UK its difficult to find parts, old integras are probably rarer still though! Great work.

When I first posted the honda bumper pics someone on facebook put up a link for brand new ones for under $200. If i'd known that I'd have considered buying a new one! Also these bumpers don't have much in the way or steel reinforcement behind them so they would be hard to mount on an S12 if it was a road car. You'd have to modify your S12 bumper reo. But a they are the right width and the right era and they have a bolt on lip. Ticks all my boxes.

shamus11 · Post by **shamus11** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:48 pm

Been doing bits & pieces over the last couple of weeks but not getting a great deal done, or at least as much as I'd hoped. I lost a whole week (of spare time) just trying to sort out a difference in camber from one side to the other. I had 3deg on RHS & 6 deg on LHS with the strut tops in the center position. I pulled the suspension out several times trying to measure things before finally pulling the engine & crossmember back out so I could set it up and measure it accurately with a level. Long story short I had to oval the RHS holes that mount to the rails 4mm as I'd left them initially as they were ovaled from factory & had only done the LH side. I sort of suspected this all along but had been avoiding the extra work. Had to do it in the end...

So here's the mods I did to the S13 crossmember.

: new slots cut.JPG (117.33 KiB) Viewed 14 times

New slots were drilled & filed with a die grinder, for turbo clearance on the LHS I've decided to run the engine mount spun 180deg, this means the slot had to be lower because the little notch that stops it spinning is now below the stud instead of above it.

: engine mount overhang.jpg (103.74 KiB) Viewed 14 times

Sitting further forward means the engine mount now does not site on a nice flat part of the crossmember so extra material needs to be added.

: extra flat welded on.JPG (138.3 KiB) Viewed 14 times

While adding the extra flat for the engine mount I welded up the old slots to keep it neat.

: xmember inner cutout.jpg (142.46 KiB) Viewed 14 times

Nothing could be too simple. The crossmember is double skinned and the new position of the engine mount stud just fouls underneath which doesn't allow you to do a nut up all the way. More drilling & grinding so I can use a flange head nut. After this pic I rewelded the two layers back together and ground flat along where the nut sits.

: s13 xmember fitted.JPG (110.32 KiB) Viewed 14 times

Painted & refitted, engine block has been test fitted then removed again getting ready to start cleaning up the engine bay & finish radiator shroud once front suspension and wheels are sorted.

: marked rails.JPG (117.68 KiB) Viewed 14 times

Just for interest's sake here is the LCA mounting marks on the rails for the two crossmembers. One pair has "13" painted at the top, the other pair is the S12 standard crossmember. You can see the S13 sits about 30mm further forward.

I was just about to buy a set of BC inverted S13 coilovers when a damaged 180sx came up on gumtree with a pair of Tien HAs in it. So I couldn't help myself & grabbed it. I'll be able to use some other parts off the car & will part out the rest to cover my outlay.

: tein coilovers.JPG (149.31 KiB) Viewed 14 times

The top spherical bushes don't feel too bad & the shocks have plenty of bump & rebound resistance so fingers crossed they will do the job to begin with. Will probably need softer springs though.

: tein z32 spacer.JPG (107.12 KiB) Viewed 14 times

Fitted with the skyline brakes. Now camber is sorted I can measure up for wheels.

: z32 caliper clearance required.JPG (112.84 KiB) Viewed 14 times

That's a 25mm bolt on spacer & 12mm of washers so 37mm of clearance required between 105mm & 130mm from the center of the wheel/hub which is where the nissan lettering on the caliper is. This is the part of the caliper that usually hits on the spoke. By holding the ruler in place & turning the hub I can check that 130mm clears both ends and the centre of the lettering.

After countless hours of searching I've just about decided on wheels. So many good & affordable wheels to choose from and pretty much every one I like doesn't clear my brakes or is only available in an offset for the front & not the rear. Would have loved Rota RBR, RKR, Shakotan, Kyusha, HM3 or Zero Plus, Enkei Apache II or any other old school style in a 15x9 but I need et15 front & at least et-15 rear. Would have gone to 16" too but same story.

: varrstoen v1 15x9 bronze et15.JPG (114.27 KiB) Viewed 14 times

I've even read that the Rota grid 16x8 et10 doesn't clear the brakes, needs 5mm spacer and the big brake clearance Rota 15s don't come in a 15x9, only the Grid V AKA Grid classic.

My best option is these Varrstoen V1.5 15x9 et15. They look to have a bigger back pad than the 15x8s which will help with brake clearance and give me ideal flare filling offset. If I stick to a 15" I can match it up with a 15x9 et-15 Rota Grid V on the rear. Ony thing might be a slight difference in color which I can probably fix myself.

If Rota made a better range of 16's I'd probably go up to a 16" but I bet they do as soon as I've bought 15's.

Just waiting on a reply from a couple sellers before I buy but if anyone else out there has a set of these & is happy to send me some measurements of the Varrstoens I'd be really gratefull.

Hopefully some pics with wheels in the next few weeks.

van_denton · Post by **van_denton** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 6:40 am

This is interesting for me too! good write up. If its a total ball ache finding the wheels you want, could you find another disc and space the calliper back? not sure how much clearance there is to the knuckle/upright?

Might be worth investigating.

Also why are you using the s13 cross member? is it for the steering rack? what advantages are there?

shamus11 · Post by **shamus11** » Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:43 pm

van_denton wrote:
This is interesting for me too! good write up. If its a total ball ache finding the wheels you want, could you find another disc and space the calliper back? not sure how much clearance there is to the knuckle/upright?

Might be worth investigating.

Also why are you using the s13 cross member? is it for the steering rack? what advantages are there?

I've combed the wreckers over here measuring brake rotors and I found either holden commodore or ford falcon ones (pretty sure it was AU falcon) are about the right size & the disk is spaced back further but the disk starts to hit on the ball joint or very close to it. Also the way the caliper mounts are they sit to the outside of the mounts on the knuckle so you can't just use a basic shim to space them back, they need to be rotated as well so the mounts don't clash. It starts to get really complicated so I'm better off just leaving the brakes as standard bolt ons & finding wheels that suit. I have done a lot of measuring, research & work into spacing the disks back with OEM parts but haven't put it on here because it has led to nothing, the best way would be to run a 2 piece rotor/hat setup but it's not in the budget for my initial build.

As for why the S13 crossmember, the initial concept was to get power steering, to maintain standard S13 geometry right thru the front end (my caster is probably different now) & to get a wider front track without having to run negative offset wheels with a big scrub radius.

Not really knowing for sure what offset wheel I'd end up with until it was all in there, in hindsight if I'd kept the S12 crossmember I'd be looking for 15x9 et0 or et-5 on the front (race clearance not hellaflush) but considering S13s would have run an et30 (just guessing) from factory I think the closer to that you can keep the wheels the better.

I'm expecting it to take me quite a while to get the front settings in my car right but by running the full S13 setup hopefully all the development & testing that the S13 guys have done will directly translate to my car.

All this is only my uneducated reasoning. It could all be wrong & I won't know until it's all finished!!!

van_denton · Post by **van_denton** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 1:05 am

well youve done your homework! sorry for my armchair comment, was just that im afraid as im not too familiar with Nissan stuff yet. I have used shims in the past to offset brake calipers also rewelded the connecting tabs on the knuckle too!

Heres another armchair observation..... could always grind of the Nissan logo for that 2 mil clearance!!

shamus11 · Post by **shamus11** » Wed Jul 02, 2014 6:16 am

van_denton wrote:
well youve done your homework! sorry for my armchair comment, was just that im afraid as im not too familiar with Nissan stuff yet. I have used shims in the past to offset brake calipers also rewelded the connecting tabs on the knuckle too!

Heres another armchair observation..... could always grind of the Nissan logo for that 2 mil clearance!!

No problem at all, hopefully not but I reckon the nissan lettering may end up getting shaved. Whatever wheel I can get is going to be really close at best.

Been sending e-mails to wheel sellers asking about brake clearance thru Ebay & their website & not gettany any response. They must deal with hundreds of e-mails from people like me so I'm not surprised but it is annoying.

Varrstoen in Australia don't sell 15" & 16" so I'm dealing with a US company that I can't just call up on the phone. I need to get a look at the back side of these wheels before I buy them because I can't send them back if they are don't fit.

shamus11 · Post by **shamus11** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:06 pm

Spents days getting nowhere trying to find measurements on the Varrstoen V1s so I've taken a gamble & bought two for the front from the US off ebay.

Should be here in a week or so. When they arrive I will put up a detailed review with measurements. Damn I hope they clear my brakes.

If they don't I'm going to assume nothing else will and stick with the wheels & run SR20T brakes until I can find another solution.

spiderwebfx · Post by **spiderwebfx** » Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:23 pm

Based on the image you posted above the Varrstoen wheels should fit.

I went through the exact same thing with my S12 when it came to finding wheels. The only new option (I was only looking at JDM) I found was the Work Meister S1's, in a custom offset. But at NZ $2800, I couldn't afford it. I managed to find some 16x8.5 weds with MASSIVE clearance behind the spokes. (I'm also 5stud though, so you'll have heaps more options anyway.)

Good luck with the fitment! but I don't imagine it'd be an issue.

Also, if you'd mentioned it earlier, I could've told you all the measurements for the calipers vs rotors.

You'd pretty much be able to get any wheel to fit with 25mm spacers, including the steel D-Window and 8-slot style wheels, I know, because I have a 8-slot centre at home as I was considering this for one of my options.