S12 Track Car Bendigo
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shamus11
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:30 pm
- Name: shane
- Car: s12 gazelle hatch
S12 Track Car Bendigo
Well it's been quite a while since I've updated because I've had next to no time on the Gazelle in the last few months but hopefully things will change as I'm having a couple months off work and plan to get stuck into this shortly. The bodywork is all back together so here's what I've done recently.
Firstly I finally got hold of some second hand 225/50R15 tyres to use for test fitting so I could make sure everything clears. One pair are old and hard but the other pair was donated from a friend Mike and they are Yokohama Advans with a bit of tread left on them. It would be great if I can get this thing going soon enough to get some use out of them but if not I plan to buy a fresh set once it's ready to race.
Using the front pair of wheels/tyres and some spacers on the rear I was able to decide I'd need the most negative offset wheel I could buy off the shelf for the rear. I ended up getting Rota Grid 15*9 et-15 from the US as the Australian seller only had et-10. I'm currently running 25mm bolt on spacers to fill the flares but the diff I plan to put in it later is 50mm wider so it will give me the same wheel position without the spacers once done.
The rears are the Rotas, both are "bronze" but clearly quite different colors.
I also fitted my R32 skyline brake rotors and found I had to cut the dust shields off to get it to fit. I was going to keep as much as I could but the R32 rotor sits further inwards than the S13 rotor and rubs on the back of the shield, not just around the outer rim so I just left enough to help protect the bearing a bit. Painted with heat proof paint. I also painted the hubs with rust converter just because I had it sitting there for another job and thought I'd see how it would go. Looks better than rusty cast iron.
With the tyres fitted I did a final trim of the front wheel arches and sanded all the surface rust off the panels, masked up all the bits I didn't want paint on and painted. Also had a rust repair on the lower section on the drivers side. Trying to keep as mush of the original exterior paint is proving painful but hopefully will be worthwhile in the end.
Same treatment for the bonnet, cleaned the underside, sanded and treated surface rust and primed/painted. As you can see the white doesn't match that well but that's how it's gunna be. After this photo was taken I ended up having to cut more of the bonnet frame out to clear the radiator top mounts.
Not happy with the original bumper mounts I made these ones and half way thru decided on a better/lighter way using some 2mm aluminum sheet but I don't have the right material so these are it for now. The rails are different from side to side so they are different lengths. They also slide inside the filler panel under the grille and help to keep that located and sturdy. They are a funny shape because the bumper rests on the top of them, but the bolts go thru the underside of the bumper where you can't see the them. This way the whole weight of the bumper isn't hanging off the two bolts that go thru from underneath.
So guards and bonnet painted I was able to fit all the front panels, gap them up and fit my wheels and roll it out of the shed for a photo and to have a big clean up before starting on the next part which will the cutting the rear wheel arches, fitting the drivers bucket and then start thinking about the engine. It's staring to look better but I'd like to paint the bumper and flares the same color black as the side decals to try and make it all look more cohesive.
Firstly I finally got hold of some second hand 225/50R15 tyres to use for test fitting so I could make sure everything clears. One pair are old and hard but the other pair was donated from a friend Mike and they are Yokohama Advans with a bit of tread left on them. It would be great if I can get this thing going soon enough to get some use out of them but if not I plan to buy a fresh set once it's ready to race.
Using the front pair of wheels/tyres and some spacers on the rear I was able to decide I'd need the most negative offset wheel I could buy off the shelf for the rear. I ended up getting Rota Grid 15*9 et-15 from the US as the Australian seller only had et-10. I'm currently running 25mm bolt on spacers to fill the flares but the diff I plan to put in it later is 50mm wider so it will give me the same wheel position without the spacers once done.
The rears are the Rotas, both are "bronze" but clearly quite different colors.
I also fitted my R32 skyline brake rotors and found I had to cut the dust shields off to get it to fit. I was going to keep as much as I could but the R32 rotor sits further inwards than the S13 rotor and rubs on the back of the shield, not just around the outer rim so I just left enough to help protect the bearing a bit. Painted with heat proof paint. I also painted the hubs with rust converter just because I had it sitting there for another job and thought I'd see how it would go. Looks better than rusty cast iron.
With the tyres fitted I did a final trim of the front wheel arches and sanded all the surface rust off the panels, masked up all the bits I didn't want paint on and painted. Also had a rust repair on the lower section on the drivers side. Trying to keep as mush of the original exterior paint is proving painful but hopefully will be worthwhile in the end.
Same treatment for the bonnet, cleaned the underside, sanded and treated surface rust and primed/painted. As you can see the white doesn't match that well but that's how it's gunna be. After this photo was taken I ended up having to cut more of the bonnet frame out to clear the radiator top mounts.
Not happy with the original bumper mounts I made these ones and half way thru decided on a better/lighter way using some 2mm aluminum sheet but I don't have the right material so these are it for now. The rails are different from side to side so they are different lengths. They also slide inside the filler panel under the grille and help to keep that located and sturdy. They are a funny shape because the bumper rests on the top of them, but the bolts go thru the underside of the bumper where you can't see the them. This way the whole weight of the bumper isn't hanging off the two bolts that go thru from underneath.
So guards and bonnet painted I was able to fit all the front panels, gap them up and fit my wheels and roll it out of the shed for a photo and to have a big clean up before starting on the next part which will the cutting the rear wheel arches, fitting the drivers bucket and then start thinking about the engine. It's staring to look better but I'd like to paint the bumper and flares the same color black as the side decals to try and make it all look more cohesive.
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eggs
- Posts: 74
- Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:57 am
- Location: bena vic
- Name: nissan
- Car: s 12
S12 Track Car Bendigo
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shamus11
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:30 pm
- Name: shane
- Car: s12 gazelle hatch
S12 Track Car Bendigo
Had a good day on the car today. Got both rear wheel arches cut and welded up. The first one took a while because I was making it up as I went along but the second was much quicker as I was able to copy measurements etc from the first side. Started just after lunch and had it all done by about 9pm. Will hopefully have it sanded and primed in the morning.
I roughly drew a line under the flare before removing it to mark where I wanted to cut. I'm not taking any metal out at the front or rear of the arch, just the top.
Then I cut a small section out (shy of my final cut line) just so I could have a peek inside, and I found half a fuel flap cable... whoops. After this I decided to cable tie my body loom up out of the way so it didn't suffer the same fate (I've diverted mine thru the inner quarter panel).
I drew a line (that can't be seen) up on the top side of the inner panel following the arch. Then I measured from that line to the edge of the outer panel in about 8 places along the arch to tell me how much metal is required to reach that outer panel. Then I marked those measurements on the inner panel and joined the dots to give me the line that can be seen. That's how much metal I need to keep.
Removed the excess metal to make it easier to stretch the inner panel with a big hammer.
My arch is aprox 165mm down from the side window trim. I had a bit of trouble bashing up the inner panel where the solid metal bracket pictured was and if I'd gone any higher I think I may have had to somehow cut this bracket out.
After an initial hammering all around the arch I worked my way around from each end I was able to hammer & tack the panels together grinding any excess off with the flap wheel as I went along.
All tacked.
Fully welded and ground up. The car is sitting on the bump stops with no springs and there is plenty of room. When I do my rear end I want to run at this height with shorter shocks and possibly a bulge in the floor if the diff hits the floor under bump. Sills are about 130mm from the ground.
I roughly drew a line under the flare before removing it to mark where I wanted to cut. I'm not taking any metal out at the front or rear of the arch, just the top.
Then I cut a small section out (shy of my final cut line) just so I could have a peek inside, and I found half a fuel flap cable... whoops. After this I decided to cable tie my body loom up out of the way so it didn't suffer the same fate (I've diverted mine thru the inner quarter panel).
I drew a line (that can't be seen) up on the top side of the inner panel following the arch. Then I measured from that line to the edge of the outer panel in about 8 places along the arch to tell me how much metal is required to reach that outer panel. Then I marked those measurements on the inner panel and joined the dots to give me the line that can be seen. That's how much metal I need to keep.
Removed the excess metal to make it easier to stretch the inner panel with a big hammer.
My arch is aprox 165mm down from the side window trim. I had a bit of trouble bashing up the inner panel where the solid metal bracket pictured was and if I'd gone any higher I think I may have had to somehow cut this bracket out.
After an initial hammering all around the arch I worked my way around from each end I was able to hammer & tack the panels together grinding any excess off with the flap wheel as I went along.
All tacked.
Fully welded and ground up. The car is sitting on the bump stops with no springs and there is plenty of room. When I do my rear end I want to run at this height with shorter shocks and possibly a bulge in the floor if the diff hits the floor under bump. Sills are about 130mm from the ground.
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shamus11
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:30 pm
- Name: shane
- Car: s12 gazelle hatch
S12 Track Car Bendigo
Been doing a little bit on the car but not really that much, spending more time selling parts to raise funds for some big dollar items that will be coming up in the build soon hopefully.
I got an extra 30mm of thread and step down machined on my caster bars a while ago. Cost me $40 and is probably the cheapest way to get more caster, however I think it may end up being too much because I'm having clearance issues with the tyres hitting the front bumper which I don't mind trimming but I don't really want to move the flare because I'd have to drill more holes in the guards so when I get time I'm going to have a closer look at it.
I also borrowed an idea from spiderwebfx's build thread and had a shaft made with a spline on each end to join my S13 steering rack to the S12 steering column. This does away with the rubber insulator connection in the steering column. I used an S13 steering column part and had the 2 bolt flange cut off one end and an S12 spline machined on that end. The S12 and S13 spline have different spline counts and the S13 spline has one wider spline tooth so that it can only be inserted in one position.
It's only just long enough and if I was having one made from scratch I'd get it made longer but it cost me $150 just to have this one spline done so it will have to do the job for now. There's enough inclusion that both locking bolts go thru with some extra at each end.
I've bought a new hydro handbrake off the website aliexpress.com. It's stuff direct from china and I thought I'd do a test run with something cheap in case it never showed up. I bought this type because the other type that I have in my stanza has a painted bracket and the paint peels off as soon as it gets brake fluid on it so this being anodized I thought might be better. Only problem I can find with it is the two bolts at the base of the handle have a little bit of slop in them so the handle feels sloppy. I will probably find the next size up bolt and drill the holes out so they have better tolerance before I fit it.
I've also pulled the CA18DE out of the blue S13. I did a compressed air test and found the head gasket is leaking up around one of the head studs, hopefully the bottom end is fine.
I've pullled if down, just need to remove the head.
I've also pulled down the turbo engine that had the knock in the bottom end and will use the head from this one which looks to be OK.
I've got everything I need now to screw the two together so this will hopefully happen in the next fortnight as I get time to work on it.
Lastly I've finally got hold of an alloy H190 diff which I've been looking for for ages. I bought this little ute on the weekend for the diff but I'm quite taken with the old girl and am gunna find it hard to sell it on to recover my costs which was the plan. It has a great patina on it and I'd love to chop the chassis and run it on some whitewall tyres but it needs a lot of work and I don't want it to distract me from this project.
Alloy H190 will probably be a 3.9 ratio but it's mainly the carrier I'm after and I will probably end up changing it to 4.1 or 4.3.
I got an extra 30mm of thread and step down machined on my caster bars a while ago. Cost me $40 and is probably the cheapest way to get more caster, however I think it may end up being too much because I'm having clearance issues with the tyres hitting the front bumper which I don't mind trimming but I don't really want to move the flare because I'd have to drill more holes in the guards so when I get time I'm going to have a closer look at it.
I also borrowed an idea from spiderwebfx's build thread and had a shaft made with a spline on each end to join my S13 steering rack to the S12 steering column. This does away with the rubber insulator connection in the steering column. I used an S13 steering column part and had the 2 bolt flange cut off one end and an S12 spline machined on that end. The S12 and S13 spline have different spline counts and the S13 spline has one wider spline tooth so that it can only be inserted in one position.
It's only just long enough and if I was having one made from scratch I'd get it made longer but it cost me $150 just to have this one spline done so it will have to do the job for now. There's enough inclusion that both locking bolts go thru with some extra at each end.
I've bought a new hydro handbrake off the website aliexpress.com. It's stuff direct from china and I thought I'd do a test run with something cheap in case it never showed up. I bought this type because the other type that I have in my stanza has a painted bracket and the paint peels off as soon as it gets brake fluid on it so this being anodized I thought might be better. Only problem I can find with it is the two bolts at the base of the handle have a little bit of slop in them so the handle feels sloppy. I will probably find the next size up bolt and drill the holes out so they have better tolerance before I fit it.
I've also pulled the CA18DE out of the blue S13. I did a compressed air test and found the head gasket is leaking up around one of the head studs, hopefully the bottom end is fine.
I've pullled if down, just need to remove the head.
I've also pulled down the turbo engine that had the knock in the bottom end and will use the head from this one which looks to be OK.
I've got everything I need now to screw the two together so this will hopefully happen in the next fortnight as I get time to work on it.
Lastly I've finally got hold of an alloy H190 diff which I've been looking for for ages. I bought this little ute on the weekend for the diff but I'm quite taken with the old girl and am gunna find it hard to sell it on to recover my costs which was the plan. It has a great patina on it and I'd love to chop the chassis and run it on some whitewall tyres but it needs a lot of work and I don't want it to distract me from this project.
Alloy H190 will probably be a 3.9 ratio but it's mainly the carrier I'm after and I will probably end up changing it to 4.1 or 4.3.
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works 510
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:25 pm
- Location: West burbs, Melb
S12 Track Car Bendigo
Alloy carrier is known to distort under load. Sometimes weight saving isnt worth it. Factory ratio is 4.6:1 or should be on that 521 ute.
Also machining standard castor rods isn't ideal. Ive run them before and had one snap on the shoulder of the newly machined area.
Sorry for the negative response on acouple thing! but cool build.
Also machining standard castor rods isn't ideal. Ive run them before and had one snap on the shoulder of the newly machined area.
Sorry for the negative response on acouple thing! but cool build.
Last edited by works 510 on Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dan,
I like skids!
I like skids!
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shamus11
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:30 pm
- Name: shane
- Car: s12 gazelle hatch
S12 Track Car Bendigo
I've hear the carrier might not be as strong but apparently the later ones like these are better than the early 320 ones.
Been doing some more reading and this 521 (with J13) diff is likely to be a 4.8 but I also picked up a 620 (J15) with it and it's likely to have a 4.6. Both ratios are probably a little low for what I want.
There's so much contradicting info on the net I won't know for sure what ratio it is till I open it up.
As for the caster rods I've been running machined ones in my stanza for years without problem but the guy who machined them put a curved radius on the step down to make them less likely to break at that point but the guy who did these ones didn't do that plus I will be running much bigger and grippier tires than I do on the stanza so it may be something I need to consider but the car will get developed over many years (hopefully) and I'll probably replace them with adjustable ones down the track. Stage one is just getting it running.
Don't mind the negative comments, I consider them constructive criticism.
Progress has slowed a little bit because I'm busy stripping the 620 to get anything useable off it and take it to scrap because it's not worth saving. I'll hang onto the 520 for now.
Been doing some more reading and this 521 (with J13) diff is likely to be a 4.8 but I also picked up a 620 (J15) with it and it's likely to have a 4.6. Both ratios are probably a little low for what I want.
There's so much contradicting info on the net I won't know for sure what ratio it is till I open it up.
As for the caster rods I've been running machined ones in my stanza for years without problem but the guy who machined them put a curved radius on the step down to make them less likely to break at that point but the guy who did these ones didn't do that plus I will be running much bigger and grippier tires than I do on the stanza so it may be something I need to consider but the car will get developed over many years (hopefully) and I'll probably replace them with adjustable ones down the track. Stage one is just getting it running.
Don't mind the negative comments, I consider them constructive criticism.
Progress has slowed a little bit because I'm busy stripping the 620 to get anything useable off it and take it to scrap because it's not worth saving. I'll hang onto the 520 for now.
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works 510
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:25 pm
- Location: West burbs, Melb
S12 Track Car Bendigo
I had machined s12 castor rods in a bluebird at one point and one decide to let go on the freeway. Wasnt much of a hassle just noticed i had to countersteer in a straight line.
Ive pulled out maybe 6 or so alloy carrier diffs out of early utes in the past, always found 4.6:1, 4.8 and 5.1 are usually 720 4x4 ratios.
Ive pulled out maybe 6 or so alloy carrier diffs out of early utes in the past, always found 4.6:1, 4.8 and 5.1 are usually 720 4x4 ratios.
Dan,
I like skids!
I like skids!
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shamus11
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:30 pm
- Name: shane
- Car: s12 gazelle hatch
S12 Track Car Bendigo
Just a quick update, have decided I want to sell the little red ute on so I've removed the diff and the only one I had to put back in there to keep it rolling was a 3.7 that's in the gazelle race car so both diffs came out.
The 521 ended up also having a 4.625 ratio like works510 said. 37 on the crown wheel and 8 on the pinion.
And then I got momentarily excited when I saw the center because it's got a floating steel piece on the shaft between the two spider gears. A quick double check and it behaved like an open diff so not sure what it's there for.
This one also has some surface rust on the crown wheel, the 2nd alloy H190 is nice and clean. plan to polish this off and see how it goes.
Here is the iron H190 out of the gazelle which doesn't have the extra part. This is what I'm used to seeing.
And here's the reason I'm excited about the new diff. There is aprox 7.5kg saving in unsprung weight between the iron center and the alloy center.
Iron center is 22kg.
alloy center is 14.5kg
I still need to swap the front flange because the gazelle has the large round flange and the 521 has the smaller rectangle flange.
I'm also having a bit of trouble finding a gasket to refit the carriers which is surprising but if I can't find one tomorrow I'll just use a liquid gasket sealant.
The 521 ended up also having a 4.625 ratio like works510 said. 37 on the crown wheel and 8 on the pinion.
And then I got momentarily excited when I saw the center because it's got a floating steel piece on the shaft between the two spider gears. A quick double check and it behaved like an open diff so not sure what it's there for.
This one also has some surface rust on the crown wheel, the 2nd alloy H190 is nice and clean. plan to polish this off and see how it goes.
Here is the iron H190 out of the gazelle which doesn't have the extra part. This is what I'm used to seeing.
And here's the reason I'm excited about the new diff. There is aprox 7.5kg saving in unsprung weight between the iron center and the alloy center.
Iron center is 22kg.
alloy center is 14.5kg
I still need to swap the front flange because the gazelle has the large round flange and the 521 has the smaller rectangle flange.
I'm also having a bit of trouble finding a gasket to refit the carriers which is surprising but if I can't find one tomorrow I'll just use a liquid gasket sealant.
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shamus11
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:30 pm
- Name: shane
- Car: s12 gazelle hatch
S12 Track Car Bendigo
Hit a couple snags today, first was trying to swap the flanges on the 2 H190 diffs. I'd read that the splines were the same and that the flanges could be swapped but once apart it was obvious this was not going to happen easily. Yes the splines are the same but the seal sizes are different both inner and outer measurements. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to find a seal that will be the correct size and not sure where to look for one. Any help on this would be great. I'm wondering if the alloy one has a H165 sized front flange but I don't have one to compare. I don't know if any H165s had the large round flange though. If anyone has measurements of a H165 one that would also help.
For the gazelle I might end up getting a one piece tailshaft made with the smaller rectangular flange on it to mate to the alloy diff but I wanted to put the steel one back in the ute so that's a bit annoying.
Just to show how close the bolt patterns are the holes are only aprox 2mm wider in one direction and 5mm wider in the other.
I also took both my CA18DE & DET cylinder heads to the engine reconditioner today to get them inspected before I decided which one to use and the alloy on both tested soft and below what would be suitable for a high comp boosted engine so I've bit the bullet and ordered another head to be supplied & fully reconditioned (OUCH!!!)
On the positive side it will be nice to have a good head that I can trust to do the job. Just means I have to start selling more stuff to keep the funds topped up.
For the gazelle I might end up getting a one piece tailshaft made with the smaller rectangular flange on it to mate to the alloy diff but I wanted to put the steel one back in the ute so that's a bit annoying.
Just to show how close the bolt patterns are the holes are only aprox 2mm wider in one direction and 5mm wider in the other.
I also took both my CA18DE & DET cylinder heads to the engine reconditioner today to get them inspected before I decided which one to use and the alloy on both tested soft and below what would be suitable for a high comp boosted engine so I've bit the bullet and ordered another head to be supplied & fully reconditioned (OUCH!!!)
On the positive side it will be nice to have a good head that I can trust to do the job. Just means I have to start selling more stuff to keep the funds topped up.
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shamus11
- Posts: 93
- Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:30 pm
- Name: shane
- Car: s12 gazelle hatch
S12 Track Car Bendigo
Progress has been frustratingly slow. Too many other jobs and the gazelle keeps getting pushed to the end of the list. My daily driver broke down and I decided to replace it and spent about 2 weeks trying to find something reasonable in my price range and in Victoria. I ended up getting an R34 Gt-t 5 speed manual that's been well kept. Just got it home yesterday so hopefully driving that will scratch the itch until I get the Gazelle running.
And it's first job was to go and pick up the rebuilt CA18 head from the engine builder so now there's nothing else I need to get this engine screwed together.
That's all for now.
And it's first job was to go and pick up the rebuilt CA18 head from the engine builder so now there's nothing else I need to get this engine screwed together.
That's all for now.